Yeah, I know. Its been a long time in between posts. However, looking at the other links here, it hasn’t been as long as some.
I was thinking this morning about big pot suck outs.
It happens to all of us AND we have done it to others.
The reason I was thinking about it was I was playing in a 7stud h/l SNG the other day, (not my normal game but I am trying to get interested in the game again and thought I would try something different), and I sucked out a big pot which took someone out and the others at the table weren’t too happy about it. I don’t remember the exact details of the hand. I remember I had 2 3 suited in the hole and on the flop I had 2 pair. The other guy had a K with 2 rags showing. He bet real hard so I figured him for trip K’s. To make a long story short, I hit another 3, got a FH and took him out. (no low hand).
I had the hand figured correctly, he did have trip K’s but I chased a little and here is where I came up with a couple of reasons you get sucked out on big pots.
I should have lost that hand and more often than not, I will. So, I was thinking 2 things. How to avoid getting myself in that position when I suck out, what is my opponent thinking when he sucks out on me.
1. Donkey – Ok – obviously you have the total Donkey player who will call on anything. This isn’t the type of suck out I am talking about. I am talking about the one where the player has been pretty “stable” then all of a sudden – suck out.
2. Not looking ahead – This is what happened in my example above. After the flop I had 2 pair. When the guy bet hard, I read the hand right and put him on trips. Then I said to myself “I’ll call and take one more card to see if it improves my hand”. I had a shot at a low hand and if I read it right, he didn’t. I looked at this from a one more card perspective, not a whole hand perspective. I didn’t look at his chipstack, how much I would be invested with the call, what the pot odds for us would be IF I called, and what would happen if the next card just improved my hand and would add more outs. So I called and, if I remember right, I got a Q which didn’t improve my hand. But, my opponent was short stacked so he went all-in. I called because it wasn’t that much more and sucked out.
3. Not believing you – I think sometimes, I get sucked out on, or suck out others because they represent a hand and I don’t believe them. For example, a A K J rainbow flop. You have JJ so you hit trips. You opponent bets like he has the str8. You don’t believe him so you call. You opponent has the Q 10 but the board pairs and you suck out. Most of the time you will loose that hand but you got lucky and hit. Previous play, number of hands played, betting patterns, etc. could all add up to making the decision on whether or not you think your opponent is bluffing.
This isn’t a very cohesive post. I am rambling a little here. My point of the whole post is to try to learn more about why I do things in certain situations so I can learn from them and not do them again.
I don’t want to be labeled as a Donkey and I don’t think I am. However, I WILL gamble and I will call you if I think you are screwing around with me.
What have I learned. Don’t stop thinking when you are in a hand. Think of the whole hand, not just the moment or the next card. Also, be patient. Sometimes you have to lay down a really strong hand even when it doesn’t look like you should.
I don’t get upset anymore (well, most of the time anyway) when I get sucked out on. I don’t care whether or not someone hit their “one outter”. What’s done is done. What I want to get better at is not getting myself in those situations in the first place. If you aren’t in it, it won’t happen to you.
Any thoughts/comments?
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Poker and me 
November 8, 2007 at 7:09 am |
Hey Bud,
Seems like we are all struggling to some degree for enthusiasm these days. Myself probably being the worst culprit.
Ok, yeah some thoughts on your post and in no particular order.
“..when I get sucked out on….What I want to get better at is not getting myself in those situations in the first place”
If you going to play poker, those situations are a part and parcel of the game, you can not avoid them. In fact if you tried to avoid them you would be playing beneath yourself so to speak. To avoid them would mean you folding the best hand.
That old saying is pretty much true. ‘Only Good Players Suffer Bad Beats’
Laying down a strong hand is a learned discipline and something I have seen you do on many occasions, fortunately for us there are many players out there who haven’t yet learned this particular skill.
As for the, ‘why the heck did I just make that call/bet?’ scenario. I know I am guilty of this sin sometimes and there is no rhyme or reason to the move. I think at some time or other we all do it. I guess the less we do it the better poker players we become?
Sometimes I just HAVE to see.. I know I am beat but like the proverbial cat, curiosity got the better of me.
November 8, 2007 at 8:04 am |
Hey Blagz, good to hear from ya! Sorry I haven’t been around a lot lately. I have some stuff going on that needs attention right now so my playing time has been limited.
Even if it wasn’t limited, I don’t know how much I would be playing though. My enthusiasm for the game has dropped some and I need to try to get it back.
I am suprised you made sense out of my post. It was convoluted and I should have spent more time putting my thoughts together.
I realize bad beats are part of the game. And, being “sucked out” on in a big pot means you had the best hand going in in the first place and thats the whole point isn’t it? Getting your money in with the best hand.
I think, what I am trying to say is that I would like to get better at is determining what possible hands my opponent is on.
I am going to continue this with a new post so my answer doesn’t go on forever here.
By the way – I also pay off hands sometimes when I know I have probably lost. I do this when one, I have the chips, and two when I don’t have a lot of information on the player.
Anyway, good hearing from you, I will continue this in a new post.
November 8, 2007 at 11:18 am |
Yup I know you knew lol..But well it needed saying too.
Look forward to reading your new post. 🙂
Here’s some food for thought regarding; “I would like to get better at is determining what possible hands my opponent is on”
The vast majority of the time we give our opponents way way WAY too much credit. This seems to apply up to at least the $20 sng buy-ins.
November 16, 2007 at 6:08 am |
Dave, Believe it or not I understood your post too! Well, it does help that I like 7stud games!
I can bet your ‘suckout’ will have been replicated thousands of times since your post. But to me, yes luck was on your side, but from the limited information you gave, I don’t think you played the hand that badly. Yes you sucked out, but from what you said I think you were going for the low. That it didn’t materialise and you sucked out on the river for the high is neither here or there. You called to see one more card and to me were effectively pot commited to call the all-in afterwards.
I would have liked to have seen how the full hand played out (with all the cards available) to give a better assessment. But from what you have posted I would more than likely habve done exactly the same thing.